Mar 18 09:00:16 ---	jlaska has changed the topic to: Fedora QA meeting (https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-March/msg00965.html) | init
Mar 18 09:01:44 <jlaska>	Let's wait a few for folks to adjust to the changed meeting time
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Mar 18 09:02:36 <jlaska>	adamw: f13: wwoods (not expected today): viking_ice
Mar 18 09:02:53 <viking_ice>	*
Mar 18 09:02:56 <jlaska>	anyone I missed, please raise your hands :)
Mar 18 09:03:06 <jlaska>	viking_ice: hello
Mar 18 09:03:19 *	f13  
Mar 18 09:03:22 <viking_ice>	greetings
Mar 18 09:03:26 <jlaska>	f13: welcome
Mar 18 09:04:49 ---	sspreitzer is now known as sspreitzer[AWAY]
Mar 18 09:04:58 *	jlaska waits another minute or so
Mar 18 09:06:25 <adamw>	yo
Mar 18 09:06:29 <jlaska>	heyo!
Mar 18 09:06:37 <adamw>	sorry, i am involved in a vigorous and enthusiastic discussion in -devel
Mar 18 09:06:38 <adamw>	;)
Mar 18 09:06:44 <jlaska>	okay, I think we have critical mass
Mar 18 09:06:46 <jlaska>	no worries :)
Mar 18 09:07:06 <jlaska>	my goal is to keep this under 1 hour today ... so let's git'er done
Mar 18 09:07:24 ---	jlaska has changed the topic to: Fedora QA Meeting | Follow-up from last meeting http://wwoods.fedorapeople.org/fedora-qa/fedora-qa-20090311.log.html
Mar 18 09:07:52 <jlaska>	the best I can discern from last weeks minutes is the semantic open it
Mar 18 09:07:54 <jlaska>	em
Mar 18 09:07:55 *	wwoods kinda here but will be leaving in a bit
Mar 18 09:07:55 <jlaska>	[jlaska&adamw] mediawiki semantic* packaging
Mar 18 09:08:10 <jlaska>	wwoods: welcome!
Mar 18 09:08:32 <jlaska>	made some good progress on the packaging, I decided not to bug adamw with that just yet since things were going fairly well
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Mar 18 09:08:42 <jlaska>	one package reviewed and build ... another inprogress
Mar 18 09:08:44 <jlaska>	    * mediawiki-semantic http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/packageinfo?packageID=7968
Mar 18 09:08:49 <jlaska>	    * mediawiki-semantic-forms package review bug#490171
Mar 18 09:08:49 <buggbot>	Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=490171 medium, medium, ---, nobody, NEW, Review Request: mediawiki-semantic-forms - An extension to MediaWiki that adds support for web-based forms
Mar 18 09:08:51 <adamw>	yes, I have been dynamically and enthusiastically leaving it to jlaska
Mar 18 09:09:01 <adamw>	and expect full credit for this work =)
Mar 18 09:09:08 <jlaska>	stickster and tibbs|h - thanks for guidance on the licensing for mediawiki-semantic-forms
Mar 18 09:09:16 <jlaska>	adamw: hey, blame goes with the credit! :D
Mar 18 09:09:25 <jlaska>	as far as next steps ...
Mar 18 09:09:29 <jlaska>	    * next steps to setup & configure a test instance and incorporate live data
Mar 18 09:09:56 <jlaska>	I sent a request out ot fedora-infrastructure to see if I could get a dump of live wiki data for testing these extensions
Mar 18 09:10:06 <jlaska>	this is definitely an area I could use assistance on
Mar 18 09:10:33 <jlaska>	it's not hard to set this thing up at all ... just going to be important on how we document best practices etc...
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Mar 18 09:11:25 <jlaska>	if anyone is interested in helping setup and play with mediawiki + semantic ... just let me know, I could use some extra eyes here
Mar 18 09:11:54 <jlaska>	that's all I coudl pick out from last week's action items ... what did I miss?
Mar 18 09:12:00 <adamw>	as i mentioned to you privately - poke fcami, as he requested it in the first place :)
Mar 18 09:12:14 <adamw>	i'd like to play with it for test day results, but for that it needs to be up publicly somewhere really
Mar 18 09:12:42 <jlaska>	indeed ... I'd like us to get really familiar with how to use this thing
Mar 18 09:13:11 <jlaska>	once it's packaged, I can ask infrastructure for hosting and we can start playing around in a demo instance
Mar 18 09:13:26 <adamw>	sure, i can come on board with playing about at that point.
Mar 18 09:13:37 <jlaska>	great, that will be a big help
Mar 18 09:14:03 <jlaska>	the guidance we have from the laptop.org folks is make sure we outline some best practices/policy before we unleash this
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Mar 18 09:14:33 <jlaska>	ACTION: let's do another check-in next week on packaging, and hopefully status on a hosted demo site
Mar 18 09:14:45 <jlaska>	any other topics from last week folks would like to raise status on?
Mar 18 09:15:22 <adamw>	er, let me take a look at the summary for a sec
Mar 18 09:15:29 <jlaska>	... sure
Mar 18 09:15:47 <adamw>	graphics test days - intel was held and successful
Mar 18 09:15:50 <adamw>	still haven't organized radeon yet
Mar 18 09:15:54 <adamw>	i'll send out a poke to the devs on that
Mar 18 09:16:10 <adamw>	we're hoping to have an intel follow up later before f11's release, to test fixes for the issues identified at the first event
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Mar 18 09:16:40 <jlaska>	ACTION: schedule radeon test day [adamw]
Mar 18 09:16:46 <jlaska>	 ^---- for my grepping sanity
Mar 18 09:17:16 <jlaska>	adamw: nice job on the intel test day ... seems like you were very busy
Mar 18 09:17:35 <jlaska>	lots of results (https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Test_Days/2009-03-12)  and data still coming in on the mailing list
Mar 18 09:18:29 <jlaska>	yesterday was also the DeviceKit test day (https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Test_Days/2009-03-17)
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Mar 18 09:18:57 <jlaska>	we didn't get quite the turn out that Intel testing gathered
Mar 18 09:19:44 <jlaska>	while a lot of the code for the DeviceKit feature is complete ... there are still interaction and UI quirks to iron out
Mar 18 09:20:15 <jlaska>	so if folks have the time ... Live USB key + DeviceKit testing (https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:DeviceKit_Test_Cases) is the way to go
Mar 18 09:20:31 <jlaska>	any other topics from last week?
Mar 18 09:21:09 <jlaska>	okay ... on to F-11-Beta ...
Mar 18 09:21:17 ---	jlaska has changed the topic to: Fedora QA meeting | F-11-Beta discussion
Mar 18 09:22:07 <jlaska>	wwoods provided a bullet list of discussion points ... which I'll summarize as the who/what/when/where/why's of the F-11-Beta
Mar 18 09:22:34 <jlaska>	> F-11 Schedule https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/11/Schedule
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Mar 18 09:23:03 <jlaska>	f13: do you have any updates from release engineering with respect to the Beta?
Mar 18 09:23:47 <f13>	nothing good to say.
Mar 18 09:23:51 <f13>	anaconda still not ready.
Mar 18 09:23:57 <adamw>	refer to the recent vigorous and enthusiastic discussion in -devel :)
Mar 18 09:24:27 <jlaska>	from a schedule perspective, do you anticipate any changes there?
Mar 18 09:24:50 <f13>	if I don't get a golden tree in the form of tomorrow's rawhide, I think we slip.
Mar 18 09:24:58 <f13>	as it is we're damn close to the wire.
Mar 18 09:25:27 <jlaska>	indeed ... Beta is scheduled to hit the mirrors on 03/24 ?
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Mar 18 09:26:02 <f13>	no, that's when its supposed to GA
Mar 18 09:26:22 <f13>	to hit that date, we have to be available to mirrors the 20th or the 21st
Mar 18 09:26:22 <jlaska>	so a few days prior for the mirrors?
Mar 18 09:26:52 <jlaska>	so we have < 2 days to compose then test a beta candidate?
Mar 18 09:27:13 <f13>	that is correct sir.
Mar 18 09:27:40 <jlaska>	the current F11Beta blocker list isn't too bad ... but I think it's the what's lurking behind door#2 that concerns you?
Mar 18 09:27:42 <f13>	once again we're to the point of "either the one we finally get to make is right, or we slip"
Mar 18 09:27:49 <jlaska>	F11Beta blockers - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/showdependencytree.cgi?id=476774&hide_resolved=1
Mar 18 09:28:09 <f13>	jlaska: I think a /lot/ of the storage bugs just aren't filed and/or listed in F11Beta
Mar 18 09:28:31 <jlaska>	what information do you need to make a slip vs no slip recommendation?
Mar 18 09:28:55 <f13>	a real good idea of what storage bugs exist
Mar 18 09:29:07 <f13>	a what works, vs what doesn't work, vs what hasn't been tested
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Mar 18 09:29:37 <jlaska>	so that leads us to the test results wiki page created by wwoods https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Fedora_11_Beta_Install_Test_Results
Mar 18 09:29:58 <f13>	I'm making some pre-beta candidate images right now in phx that has today's rawhide + newer anaconda and python-pyblock
Mar 18 09:30:14 <f13>	jlaska: well the installer guys know some of this, but they aren't sharing with bugzilla.
Mar 18 09:30:26 <adamw>	so basically you need us/bugzappers to be looking through anaconda storage bugs and trying to get appropriate ones on the blocker list?
Mar 18 09:31:16 <jlaska>	adamw: is that possible?  I'd be curious what total number of untriaged isntallation bugs we have post F11-Alpha
Mar 18 09:31:33 <f13>	adamw: yes, but again I think a lot of the known issues just aren't filed as bugs
Mar 18 09:31:35 <jlaska>	I suspect we had a few test blockers that prevent us from hitting more interesting installer bugs
Mar 18 09:31:39 <adamw>	jlaska: i'll see if anyone in Bugzappers would be willing to look at that
Mar 18 09:31:55 <adamw>	jlaska: i can give you a number on untriaged installation bugs, btw, give me a few seconds
Mar 18 09:32:02 <jlaska>	adamw: thank you
Mar 18 09:32:03 <f13>	and part of that problem has been new bugs introduced with changes to fix old bugs preventing further install testing.
Mar 18 09:32:15 <adamw>	jlaska: what date did alpha come out, off the top of your head?
Mar 18 09:32:41 <jlaska>	around 2009-02-01
Mar 18 09:32:51 <jlaska>	timestamp = 1233543911.73
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Mar 18 09:33:38 <jlaska>	f13: are we at the point where we have enough confidence that we can reach out for beta install testers to help flesh out https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Fedora_11_Beta_Install_Test_Results
Mar 18 09:33:47 <adamw>	ok - there are 42  bugs in NEW status filed on any anaconda component in rawhide since 2009-02-01
Mar 18 09:33:49 <adamw>	this is the list:
Mar 18 09:33:52 <adamw>	https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&classification=Fedora&product=Fedora&component=anaconda&component=anaconda-help&component=anaconda-images&component=anaconda-yum-plugins&version=rawhide&bug_status=NEW&chfieldfrom=2009-02-01&chfieldto=Now&chfield=[Bug%20creation]
Mar 18 09:33:55 <buggbot>	<http://tinyurl.com/dgtlnk> (at bugzilla.redhat.com)
Mar 18 09:34:15 <f13>	jlaska: yes, although we may have to feed them updates.img files
Mar 18 09:34:21 <adamw>	NEW status means it's untriaged (and unlikely to have been touched by bugzappers or maintainers)
Mar 18 09:34:30 <f13>	jlaska: we should have had them banging away at the results page from the day of freeze
Mar 18 09:35:01 <jlaska>	f13: certainly earlier the better ... not sure how much progress we would have made given some key test blockers on storage
Mar 18 09:35:08 <adamw>	f13: so it would be useful to you for qa/bugzappers to go through that list and get appropriate ones onto the blocker list? if so i'll try and get that done.
Mar 18 09:35:26 <f13>	jlaska: we would have at least known where the bugs were and had them recorded in bugzilla.
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Mar 18 09:35:43 <jlaska>	f13: possibly ... but that's what test blockers are ... we don't konw what lurks behind them
Mar 18 09:35:46 <f13>	adamw: sure, it'll give us something to review for block/noblock.
Mar 18 09:35:56 <f13>	jlaska: at this point, we don't even know what the test blockers /are/
Mar 18 09:35:58 <jlaska>	f13: but I agree knowing more at this point would arm us well for a beta recommendation
Mar 18 09:36:30 <jlaska>	okay, I'll take an action item to put out a request for testing assistance
Mar 18 09:37:05 <jlaska>	ACTION: [jlaska] email f-t-list with request for pre-beta test feedback in https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Fedora_11_Beta_Install_Test_Results
Mar 18 09:37:10 <f13>	and a note somewhere that this page needs to be available at or before the freeze and we need to start getting results recorded at or before the freeze.
Mar 18 09:37:34 <jlaska>	f13: can you get me a link or info on the updates.img (or if you can post directly to that wiki page)?
Mar 18 09:37:46 <f13>	I don't know if there is one being passed around yet today
Mar 18 09:38:02 <jlaska>	f13: ah okay, I may have misunderstood a previous comment
Mar 18 09:38:08 <jlaska>	I'm not aware of one for today either
Mar 18 09:38:10 <f13>	well, I saw mention of some but I think that's for further develoipment on storage branch not necessarily fixing critical beta bugs.
Mar 18 09:39:06 <jlaska>	we still have an open issue that I don't think we have sufficient time to fill out the matrix
Mar 18 09:39:20 <jlaska>	so as is usually the case, we may need ot make a decision with what info we have available
Mar 18 09:40:04 <jlaska>	f13: if there are some high-level use cases related to installation that would give you a better sense for this release, we might choose to narrow the request for testing around those areas?
Mar 18 09:40:29 <jlaska>	which reminds me ... anyone have the link for the Beta release notes so we can begin to drop content there?
Mar 18 09:40:49 <f13>	I don't know off hand, what is our "critical" path for beta?
Mar 18 09:41:26 <f13>	autopart using existing Linux, autopart using free space, autopart using entire disk, all of those + encryption
Mar 18 09:41:32 <f13>	various levels of custom partitioning
Mar 18 09:41:39 <f13>	clearing off existing LVM sets
Mar 18 09:41:40 <jlaska>	everything from the part type screen was my initial focus for the storage test day
Mar 18 09:42:02 <jlaska>	yeah you're list above is what I had in mind as well
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Mar 18 09:42:36 <jlaska>	f13: okay, I'll see if we need to adjust the test results wiki accordingly and request focus on those areas
Mar 18 09:42:57 <jlaska>	when should we review the results ... Friday?
Mar 18 09:43:03 <f13>	that's too late
Mar 18 09:43:21 <f13>	either thursday's rawhide (that's tomorrow) is good enough for beta, or we slip.
Mar 18 09:43:28 <jlaska>	so end of day tomorrow?
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Mar 18 09:44:04 <f13>	jlaska: end of day, or first critical breakage, whichever comes first
Mar 18 09:44:29 <jlaska>	sounds good ... we'll be in touch :D
Mar 18 09:44:38 <jlaska>	okay ... any other comments on the Beta ?
Mar 18 09:45:11 <jlaska>	adamw: do you think we can have the OPEN issues scrubbed in time for tomorrow by end of day?
Mar 18 09:45:22 <jlaska>	OPEN == (NEW anaconda bugs)
Mar 18 09:45:58 <f13>	wait a sec, is this meeting an hour early today?
Mar 18 09:46:02 <jlaska>	yes
Mar 18 09:46:10 <f13>	ok, no wonder my alarm didn't go off
Mar 18 09:46:19 <jlaska>	f13: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-March/msg00965.html
Mar 18 09:46:26 <f13>	I haven't gotten to email yet
Mar 18 09:46:32 <jlaska>	no worries
Mar 18 09:46:34 <adamw>	jlaska: i've sent requests to the irc chan and mailing list
Mar 18 09:46:44 <jlaska>	adamw: thanks ... we'll see where we are tomorrow then
Mar 18 09:46:49 <adamw>	jlaska: iarly is going to help out now, i will try and do some myself later too
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Mar 18 09:47:12 <jlaska>	My google fu is failing to find a Beta release notes wiki page ... anyone know if that exists yet?
Mar 18 09:47:29 <jlaska>	https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/11/Beta/ReleaseNotes is empty
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Mar 18 09:47:59 <jlaska>	 ... I'll find out an include in the minutes
Mar 18 09:48:20 <jlaska>	... okay rounding 3rd base </bad_sports_analogy> ...
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Mar 18 09:48:31 ---	jlaska has changed the topic to: Fedora QA meeting | Upcoming QA events
Mar 18 09:48:45 <jlaska>	adamw has 2 test days upcoming ...
Mar 18 09:48:55 <jlaska>	tomorrow > XFCE Test Day [https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Test_Days/2009-03-19]
Mar 18 09:49:08 <adamw>	xfce is pretty much planned except i need to finish off the test cases. i'll get that done today
Mar 18 09:49:09 <jlaska>	and the following thursday  > Nouveau Test Day [https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Test_Days/2009-03-26]
Mar 18 09:49:16 <adamw>	should've been promoted yesterday but i didn't have time, la la.
Mar 18 09:49:19 *	nirik was finally able to make xfce live isos and test last night. Hurray. 
Mar 18 09:49:24 <jlaska>	adamw: you've got the mic ...
Mar 18 09:49:34 <adamw>	nirik: ooh. could if we could have those available for the test day it'd be awesome
Mar 18 09:49:55 <nirik>	yeah, I can see about uploading somewhere.
Mar 18 09:50:02 <viking_ice>	spins ready for test day?
Mar 18 09:50:03 <adamw>	nouveau is mostly ready too, still need to have the rendercheck packaging done (i'll bug ben about that), but we could go ahead without it. a live CD would be really great for that also.
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Mar 18 09:50:34 <jlaska>	adamw: we can do the livecd for nouveau, I can build images and request hosting from jeremy (who has more quota)
Mar 18 09:50:36 <viking_ice>	rule of thumb hw test == we need to hva livecd
Mar 18 09:50:38 <viking_ice>	ready
Mar 18 09:50:55 <jlaska>	viking_ice: agreed, the live images have been *very* handy for those test days
Mar 18 09:51:05 <adamw>	nirik: jeremy has gigantic quota, we've just been sticking live CDs in his space for now. we could remove older ones after a while and update the link on the test day pages to point to the nwer ones.
Mar 18 09:51:11 <viking_ice>	there were atleast 2 on the intel test day
Mar 18 09:51:27 <viking_ice>	that needed live ( willing to test not willing to break box )
Mar 18 09:51:30 <nirik>	adamw: cool. If someone could make some and stick them up there that would be great.
Mar 18 09:51:59 <jlaska>	nirik: you need someone to build the images for XFCE?
Mar 18 09:52:00 <nirik>	I did make some minor ks changes last night. Requested them for the beta... so if you could, spin them from git head
Mar 18 09:52:25 <nirik>	jlaska: well, I can build them here, but not sure how long upload will take. ;) If someone is closer net wise and has good upload that might be faster.
Mar 18 09:53:03 <f13>	I need to drop off so that I can get ready for my next meeting.
Mar 18 09:53:04 <adamw>	jlaska: if you could help me out there it'd be awesome, i still haven't got used to the generator and i'm looking to have a busy rest of today with the xfce test cases and installer triaging stuff. plus i've got a haircut this afternoon :)
Mar 18 09:53:05 <jlaska>	nirik: if you can send me which spin-kickstarts/ file are you using I can ask if jeremy can post them for us?
Mar 18 09:53:13 <jlaska>	f13: roger, see you soon
Mar 18 09:53:26 <jlaska>	adamw: you do need a haircut!
Mar 18 09:53:27 <jlaska>	:)
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Mar 18 09:53:43 <adamw>	jlaska: hmm, when you saw me i'd had one quite recently :P
Mar 18 09:53:54 <jlaska>	jk ;)
Mar 18 09:54:08 <nirik>	jlaska: sure, basically the xfce one from git head of spins-kickstarts.
Mar 18 09:54:12 <jlaska>	okay
Mar 18 09:54:21 <jlaska>	I'll talk to jeremy and se if we can have something posted for tomorrow
Mar 18 09:54:32 <jlaska>	unless anyone else wants to grab that one?
Mar 18 09:54:41 <nirik>	http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/?p=spin-kickstarts.git;a=blob;f=fedora-livecd-xfce.ks;h=b97e245b94843596c1026d265a181e30e0dfe784;hb=9ec863778654f5462ab33300181ec1a9348d58ef
Mar 18 09:54:45 <nirik>	man, thats ugly.
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Mar 18 09:54:55 <jlaska>	nirik: no worries, I have the link
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Mar 18 09:55:31 <jlaska>	okay folks ... I need to cut out shortly, and we're approaching out 1hr limit
Mar 18 09:55:38 ---	jlaska has changed the topic to: Fedora QA meeting | Open Discussion
Mar 18 09:56:36 <jlaska>	are there any topics folks would like to discuss before we close out?
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Mar 18 09:57:15 <nirik>	just FYI, I should be around for Xfce tomorrow, but I am on MDT, so will not be in until 9am (11am EDT).
Mar 18 09:57:35 <jlaska>	nirik: okay, thanks for update
Mar 18 09:58:33 <viking_ice>	wp instance for announcements stuck in infrastructure
Mar 18 09:58:51 <jlaska>	viking_ice: do you have  a link to the ticket?
Mar 18 09:59:15 <viking_ice>	12456
Mar 18 09:59:16 <viking_ice>	1245
Mar 18 09:59:31 <viking_ice>	it's 1245
Mar 18 09:59:56 <viking_ice>	perhaps maintainers/developers should introduce them self as such when reply on the test list
Mar 18 10:00:11 <jlaska>	https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/1245
Mar 18 10:00:27 <viking_ice>	yup
Mar 18 10:00:34 <adamw>	viking_ice: that'd be nice but probably unlikely to be possible :\ trying to get maintainers to do anything like that is like herding cats...
Mar 18 10:01:00 <viking_ice>	sandeen: has been getting hard time getting testers to do what they need to do for him to diagnose the problem
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Mar 18 10:01:22 <viking_ice>	Well hey smug me maintain you do this ok and file a report with output
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Mar 18 10:02:03 <jlaska>	viking_ice: hrmm, interesting idea ... I'm going to put this down as a discussion point
Mar 18 10:02:12 <viking_ice>	well a whole sysrq wiki page got written
Mar 18 10:02:19 <jlaska>	yeah that was good stuff!
Mar 18 10:02:49 <viking_ice>	jlaska: there is also an rfe that wont get work on until the webpage is setup
Mar 18 10:03:01 <viking_ice>	for a notifier-applet in gnome
Mar 18 10:03:01 <jlaska>	viking_ice: can you post the link for the minutes?
Mar 18 10:03:16 <viking_ice>	which link ?
Mar 18 10:03:22 <jlaska>	SysRq
Mar 18 10:03:46 <jlaska>	I've got to drop off folks, thanks for the meeting
Mar 18 10:03:58 <jlaska>	minutes to follow on the list, let's continue discussion in #fedora-qa and on fedora-test-list@redhat.com
Mar 18 10:04:03 <viking_ice>	http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Sysrq
Mar 18 10:04:13 <jlaska>	viking_ice: thanks!
Mar 18 10:04:15 <viking_ice>	well christo moved it there